The head of the U.S. Department of Veterans Affairs (VA) says he had an \u201ceye-opening\u201d talk with Robert F. Kennedy Jr., the Trump administration\u2019s top federal health official, about the therapeutic potential of psychedelic medicine. And he intends to press Congress to take action on the issue.<\/p>\n
VA Secretary Doug Collins, a former Republican congressman, also said during an interview on the Shawn Ryan Show that was posted this week that he\u2019s open to the idea of having the government provide vouchers to cover the costs of psychedelic therapy for veterans who receive services outside of VA as Congress considers pathways for access.<\/p>\n
Collins noted that VA has already been conducting clinical trials into the therapeutic use of psychedelics for veterans with post-traumatic stress disorder (PTSD) and traumatic brain injury (TBI), and the initial results show it\u2019s \u201cworking,\u201d with \u201ctremendous change\u201d among participants.<\/p>\n
The secretary said he and Kennedy, the health and human services secretary, \u201csat in my office two weeks ago and talked about this very issue,\u201d including how to navigate the regulatory and bureaucratic barriers to freeing up funds to support psychedelics access.<\/p>\n
\u201cBecause we\u2019re actually a hospital, a healthcare organization, we\u2019re bound by some of the laws that Congress has made that have bound us into what we can use and what we can\u2019t use,\u201d he said, adding that marijuana is a \u201cbig example\u201d of an alternative therapy that VA isn\u2019t able to provide under current law.<\/p>\n
\u201cYou\u2019ve had a lot of congressmen say, \u2018We\u2019re not gonna do that. We\u2019re gonna keep <\/span><\/span>it where it\u2019s <\/span><\/span>at’\u201d under the Controlled Substances Act (CSA). \u201cAnd so <\/span><\/span>that it binds <\/span><\/span>us a little <\/span><\/span>bit.\u201d<\/span><\/span><\/p>\n Asked for details about his conversation with the HHS secretary, Collins said it was \u201ceye-opening because, of course he is very \u2018Make America Healthy Again\u2014getting the food additives out, getting those kind of stuff.\u201d<\/p>\n He said they discussed the unique authority HHS and the agencies under it such as the Food and Drug Administration (FDA) possess to affect change around psychedelics policy, and it was \u201creally interesting\u201d to hear Kennedy\u2019s perspective on the issue, which he spoke frequently about during his own 2024 presidential campaign before joining the Trump administration.<\/p>\n Kennedy told the VA official that, because of his personal history with heroin addiction during his youth, he\u2019s not comfortable with using psychedelics himself. But \u201cthen he wanted to explain that a family member of his, a child of his, who had an experience using psychedelics that changed his life drastically.\u201d<\/p>\n Kennedy told Collins that he realized \u201cthis is working\u201d for his child, because \u201cI actually see it happening and see it work\u2026in my own flesh and blood,\u201d the VA secretary said.<\/p>\n \u201cI think that\u2019s the part that, for me, began to be exciting a little bit,\u201d Collins said, \u201cto see, here\u2019s someone who is so sensitive to those issues of medication,\u201d and yet they believe in the therapeutic promise of this novel alternative treatment option.<\/p>\n Collins also said that, under right to try legislation that Trump signed during his first term to allow experimental use of drugs not currently approved by FDA for people with serious illnesses, VA is \u201cexploring <\/span><\/span>right now\u2014among <\/span><\/span>the many things <\/span><\/span>that I\u2019m shoveling <\/span><\/span>as fast as <\/span><\/span>my shovel can <\/span><\/span>shovel\u2014is to <\/span><\/span>see is there <\/span><\/span>ways\u2026 <\/span><\/span>we can expand <\/span><\/span>some of those <\/span><\/span>programs right now <\/span><\/span>into psychedelics.\u201d<\/span><\/span><\/p>\n The host also floated the possibility that the government could provide vouchers to people for psychedelics therapy while access remains restricted under current federal law, and Collins said he does think \u201cit\u2019s a possibility.<\/p>\n \u201cI <\/span><\/span>think everything for <\/span><\/span>me is on <\/span><\/span>the table right <\/span><\/span>now. And that <\/span><\/span>doesn\u2019t mean everything\u2019s <\/span><\/span>gonna get approved. <\/span><\/span>That doesn\u2019t mean <\/span><\/span>that it\u2019s <\/span><\/span>gonna happen. But, <\/span><\/span>for me,<\/span><\/span>\u00a0I want <\/span><\/span>to say, \u2018Okay, <\/span><\/span>if we have <\/span><\/span>these possibilities that <\/span><\/span>we\u2019re seeing\u2014<\/span><\/span>the mentoring, <\/span><\/span>the counseling, <\/span><\/span>the treatments, especially <\/span><\/span>stuff like that <\/span><\/span>that are working\u2014<\/span><\/span>can we partner <\/span><\/span>with that\u201d with non-governmental institutions.<\/span><\/span><\/p>\n \u201cIf it <\/span><\/span>is something we <\/span><\/span>can now try, <\/span><\/span>then I\u2019m <\/span><\/span>going to <\/span><\/span>be looking at <\/span><\/span>this,\u201d he said.<\/span><\/span><\/p>\n As far as administrative next steps, Collins said \u201cthe <\/span><\/span>first all we\u2019re <\/span><\/span>gonna do is continue to collect data from various research projects on psychedelics, including those being facilitated by VA, and determining if \u201cthere\u2019s a possibility to expand.\u201d<\/span><\/span><\/p>\n \u201cI\u2019m not <\/span><\/span>trying to e<\/span><\/span>vasive <\/span><\/span>here. I\u2019ve got <\/span><\/span>to get the <\/span><\/span>knowledge of what <\/span><\/span>we\u2019re doing and <\/span><\/span>what we have <\/span><\/span>not done,\u201d he said. \u201c<\/span><\/span>So let\u2019s <\/span><\/span>get data on <\/span><\/span>that [and] <\/span><\/span>have our people <\/span><\/span>start <\/span><\/span>reaching out across <\/span><\/span>the board to <\/span><\/span>say, \u2018Okay, what <\/span><\/span>is out there?’\u201d<\/span><\/span><\/p>\n \u201cThen we\u2019ve gotta <\/span><\/span>also then take<\/span><\/span>\u00a0that and <\/span><\/span>look at what <\/span><\/span>is the structural <\/span><\/span>limitations that I <\/span><\/span>have?\u201d Collins said. \u201cWhat is <\/span><\/span>the VA structural <\/span><\/span>problems to either <\/span><\/span>entering into a <\/span><\/span>larger study or <\/span><\/span>entering into a <\/span><\/span>trial basis or <\/span><\/span>basically <\/span><\/span>possibly even, <\/span><\/span>as you <\/span><\/span>said, early voucher <\/span><\/span>funding or whatever <\/span><\/span>that may be. <\/span><\/span>What are my <\/span><\/span>structural limitations that <\/span><\/span>Congress has put <\/span><\/span>on me there? <\/span><\/span>Is there structural <\/span><\/span>limitations that says <\/span><\/span>you can use <\/span><\/span>X dollars for <\/span><\/span>this, but you <\/span><\/span>can\u2019t use X <\/span><\/span>dollars for that?\u201d<\/span><\/span><\/p>\n If there are regulatory barriers that VA can\u2019t independently overcome to explore the treatment option, Collins said that, at that point, he\u2019s going to go to congressional leaders and tell them, \u201cLook, these are things that I need to changed.\u201d<\/p>\n \u201cGive me the <\/span><\/span>statutory ability. And <\/span><\/span>even if you <\/span><\/span>wanna do it <\/span><\/span>on a limited <\/span><\/span>basis to start <\/span><\/span>off with, <\/span><\/span>I\u2019ll take that <\/span><\/span>so that I <\/span><\/span>can actually start <\/span><\/span>trying,\u201d he said he\u2019d tell lawmakers. \u201cIf I <\/span><\/span>find out I <\/span><\/span>don\u2019t have some <\/span><\/span>of the statutory <\/span><\/span>limitations, then I <\/span><\/span>wanna know what, <\/span><\/span>policy-wise, may <\/span><\/span>be hindering this, <\/span><\/span>or is there <\/span><\/span>a policy that <\/span><\/span>can make sure <\/span><\/span>that we\u2019re working <\/span><\/span>with partners to <\/span><\/span>